„Creating spaces for Jewish life“ - Interview with Maria Noth
The interview was conducted by journalist Annette Grossbongardt
The reconstruction of the Frauenkirche in Dresden, which was destroyed during the Second World War, is considered a great success — is there anything to learn from this for the reconstruction of the Bornplatz Synagogue, or are the two projects not comparable at all?
Emergency: They are both places of worship, and in both cases it is about the issue of religion in a fairly secular society. This question was therefore very central in Dresden: Does it still make sense to rebuild a church? We have so many churches and so few members, that was the concern of the Evangelical Lutheran State Church here in Saxony, for example.
The Jewish Community of Hamburg also has far fewer members today than when the synagogue was built at the beginning of the 20th century — because of the Holocaust.
Emergency: That is also one of the essential differences: We in Dresden were involved in our own downfall ourselves. The church stood in a town that was brown through and through. The Frauenkirche was even sometimes referred to by the Nazis as the “Cathedral of German Christians.” That means there is no innocence that some people here want to uphold. And that is why the reconstruction here must also be understood with all humility; it is a gift and an obligation. In the case of a synagogue, this is of course something completely different.
In what way?
Emergency: Something was forcibly taken away from a Jewish community here. That is perhaps why the project is even more important. This is about the visibility of religion, about creating spaces for Jewish life again. That is the best thing you can do against historical oblivion. Especially when a Jewish community says: We want that. That's great! It shows: We were part of Germany and are so again, it is different today, but we want to reconnect with a tradition.
The synagogue was partially destroyed during the pogrom night in 1938, when the city of Hamburg ordered its forced demolition. Today, the Hamburg Parliament, the Hamburg Senate and the federal government support the reconstruction. Opponents of the project say that the square where the synagogue once stood should remain empty — as a memorial. If you rebuild the building, you would pretend that nothing had happened. Did the Frauenkirche also have this objection?
Emergency: Yes, but this is also where the ruin stood — for 40 years. In Hamburg, I took a look at the square with the floor mosaic, which is supposed to remind me of the synagogue. Honestly, if you don't know it, you barely notice it, for most people who just happen to drop by, it's just an empty space. And for Jewish life, it is about shaping the future, a living house, once again a real home for Jews. But that won't be possible with a memorial.
Should the commemoration disappear altogether?
Emergency: No, definitely not, but you can also create a reminder in a rebuilt synagogue, much better, because events take place there and school classes can visit. That is active remembering. It would be good to also look ahead, i.e. what will happen in 30 years when our children grow up. My daughter's generation, for example, did not know the ruins of the Frauenkirche at all; for them, the rebuilt church is normal. To create this image, what did it look like back then, what happened in between, and how can I transfer that to current topics, you have to be aware of and present that again and again.
In order to mark the historical break, some critics are calling for a completely new draft. What do you think of that?
Emergency: It's simple: The will of the community must be respected, and it wants to reconstruct history.
How did you integrate the story at Frauenkirche?
Emergency: We do it anew every day. Today, you can distinguish the dark stones in the outer façade, which still date from the old church, from the bright stones from the reconstruction. At some point, all stones will look equally dark. Even the traces of destruction on the altar, which still consists largely of original material, are barely visible at first glance from a distance. People who come to us without knowing the story first think: Wow! Great church! We are therefore trying to capture the past through exhibitions, but also to address current conflicts and deliberately set points of friction in the Baroque church room. Last year, we showed photos of destroyed houses of worship in Ukraine and also of how people there live culture despite the war. With regard to the synagogue, one could address anti-Semitism, for example. It is best to consider project ideas and opportunities to open up space for current topics as early as the usage concept.
How did you convince those who would rather preserve the ruin?
Emergency: I was still a teenager when the debate started, but I know her, of course. I myself come from a parish family near here; my father was against the reconstruction. He also said why do we still need so many churches, because they must also be filled with life. The critics of that time are largely reconciled today, especially because the Frauenkirche, as a living church in a secular environment, appeals to people who would probably never otherwise enter a church. And certainly also because the Frauenkirche is more than just a church: it is a sound space and exhibition space, an architectural monument and a space of discourse, a place of remembrance and an open church. In this way, it has become an identity point for many people.
But how did that work out?
Emergency: We were lucky, it was a good time. It was just after the fall of the Wall, people were looking for support, and I believe the Frauenkirche project, this idea, we're rebuilding our landmark here, that also had something to do with pride, with identity. There was a real spirit of departure to put this energy of reunification into a civic project. It wasn't even financed yet. Following the decision of the Free State of Saxony, the state capital Dresden and the Evangelical Lutheran State Church of Saxony, citizens went to Tingeln for the time being to find supporters. Reconciliation towards the West also helped, as there were many who still had a connection to Dresden, in the USA, Great Britain, France.
The reconstruction of the Bornplatz Synagogue is supported by the citizens of Hamburg, but how can you get the city community excited about it?
Emergency: I think the first point is that it must become a civil society project. The visibility of Jewish life, the resurgence of anti-Semitism, is not just about the community. I am also on the board of Jewish Week here in Dresden, and I feel time and again that people have inhibitions. For most, Jewish life is the Shoah, otherwise there are no points of contact, how diverse Jewish life is, how much fun and joy it is. That Jewish people are people just like everyone else. It is also about reducing these fears of contact, for example through interreligious projects. You have to create openness and make the building come alive. We're open all day so anyone can just come in. In the case of a synagogue, this is of course not so easy due to the security issue.
What offer do you have in Dresden for people who do not have much to do with Christianity?
Emergency: We have a huge concert program, we are Dresden's architectural landmark, and many come here just for that. During guided tours, we try to combine this with the church. In Hamburg, too, you could approach the topic of architecture, because there is no other historic synagogue in the city, right? It's about creating a brand, a building that's worth looking at. That is also a question of city marketing.
So tourism?
Emergency: It's not a bad thing when people come to look at something because they're curious. Curiosity is a positive thing. It's about reducing shyness so that people say: I'm going in there now.
One of the critics, an architect, spoke of the “nostalgic and historically forgotten backward agility” of a reconstruction; it would not even depict today's Jewish world.
Emergency: Of course, there are also people who don't know the story and simply say, man, that's great! If we were only to tell them why the citizens of the 18th century designed the Frauenkirche as magnificently as it stands today, you could say that history has been forgotten with regard to the Nazi era. And I admit that it is sometimes difficult for us to keep the thirties and forties awake in this mass tourism. That is why it is so important to develop a program for this.
Can't you also use the historic building to illustrate how great what was destroyed was?
Emergency: Yes, but you also have to be careful. Sometimes you literally slip off the beauty of the Frauenkirche. That is why a good concept is needed to keep awareness of the historical break alive, not so much for the Jewish community itself than for urban society as a whole.
At Daniel Libeskind's Military History Museum in Dresden, a new building cuts through the historic building like a wedge. Are such architectural disruptors needed to remind us of the historic catastrophe?
Emergency: It doesn't have to be the building itself, there are so many effects to achieve that: Through illuminations, with sounds, with banners on the outer façade. The decisive factor is not whether a building is historically rebuilt or not, but how you deal with it.
About the person: Maria Noth has been managing director of the Frauenkirche Dresden Foundation since 2020. Born in Saxony, she studied cultural studies, American studies and Jewish studies in Germany and the USA and is a certified foundation manager. Noth is a Protestant Christian.
